Told Me I Couldn’t Say Yes Ma’am to Them; I Was Confused
Interviewer: Zoe Calkins
Interviewee: Neville Barnes
I interviewed my grandfather, Neville Ray Barnes, in a cabin near the Ouachita River. The family was there for a few days over winter break visiting and catching up on things. The subject of school came up between me and my grandparents, and the thought of my Memory Project interview came to mind. I started to ask my grandfather a few questions on things related to the integration and civil rights movement. As it turned out my grandfather knew only little about them, but I continued to question him anyway.
My grandfather was in school during the time of the integration, living in Louisiana. When I asked him about the changes he might have seen going on around him involving segregation he told me, “There were only minor changes, like no open seating on transportation, no sharing water fountains and restrooms…things like that.”
I found this interesting, considering my grandfather was in the South where most of the segregation was taking place, so I questioned further. “Do you remember any particular events or experiences that have stayed with you?” I asked.
“Yes,” he said, “I think I might be able to think of a few things.” His voice seemed to get lower and his face seemed tense as if he was trying hard to remember something.
Then he started, “I went to California in 1955; we stopped at a diner type place and while eating at the counter, a black man came up and sat beside me. It wasn’t unusual to be happening in California, but it was to someone from the South. However, I wasn’t at all offended by it.”
He paused and then went back to talking. “I also remember once when I was little. I said ‘yes ma’am’ to a black woman, and my dad told me that I couldn’t say ‘yes ma’am to them. I was very confused when this happened because my parents had always taught me to use my manners and say things like ‘yes ma’am’ and ‘no ma’am’. I didn’t understand why I was being told not to say it.” He looked up at me as I was steadily writing all he was saying onto a notepad.
Then my grandmother walked in, “I remember once my mother told me not to say ‘black lady’ but to say ‘black woman’,” she said. My grandfather nodded his head as a way to say that he remembered that as well.
I could tell that my grandparents didn’t have much to say about integregation. I asked them how they felt about it, and they told me that it really didn’t have much of an effect on them. “It didn’t bother me at all; I’ve always had black friends, some better friends than whites,” he said.
From interviewing my grandparents I learned that the desegregation really had a lot of different effects on a lot of different people. In some cases it changed people’s lives and altered their personalities completely. However, other times it didn’t really have much of an effect at all, like with my grandfather and grandmother.
I believe this story can definitely connect to what we are currently studying in Civics class. Civil rights were a big part of the desegregation changes, and interviewing a person who has had a few actual experiences concerning them improved my knowledge on the subject.