Interviewee: Neville Barnes

I interviewed my grandfather, Neville Ray Barnes, in a cabin near the Ouachita River. The family was there for a few days over winter break visiting and catching up on things. The subject of school came up between me and my grandparents, and the thought of my Memory Project interview came to mind. I started to ask my grandfather a few questions on things related to the integration and civil rights movement. As it turned out my grandfather knew only little about them, but I continued to question him anyway.
My grandfather was in school during the time of the integration, living in Louisiana. When I asked him about the changes he might have seen going on around him involving segregation he told me, “There were only minor changes, like no open seating on transportation, no sharing water fountains and restrooms…things like that.”
I found this interesting, considering my grandfather was in the South where most of the segregation was taking place, so I questioned further. “Do you remember any particular events or experiences that have stayed with you?” I asked.
“Yes,” he said, “I think I might be able to think of a few things.” His voice seemed to get lower and his face seemed tense as if he was trying hard to remember something.
Then he started, “I went to California in 1955; we stopped at a diner type place and while eating at the counter, a black man came up and sat beside me. It wasn’t unusual to be happening in California, but it was to someone from the South. However, I wasn’t at all offended by it.”
He paused and then went back to talking. “I also remember once when I was little. I said ‘yes ma’am’ to a black woman, and my dad told me that I couldn’t say ‘yes ma’am to them. I was very confused when this happened because my parents had always taught me to use my manners and say things like ‘yes ma’am’ and ‘no ma’am’. I didn’t understand why I was being told not to say it.” He looked up at me as I was steadily writing all he was saying onto a notepad.
Then my grandmother walked in, “I remember once my mother told me not to say ‘black lady’ but to say ‘black woman’,” she said. My grandfather nodded his head as a way to say that he remembered that as well.
I could tell that my grandparents didn’t have much to say about integregation. I asked them how they felt about it, and they told me that it really didn’t have much of an effect on them. “It didn’t bother me at all; I’ve always had black friends, some better friends than whites,” he said.
From interviewing my grandparents I learned that the desegregation really had a lot of different effects on a lot of different people. In some cases it changed people’s lives and altered their personalities completely. However, other times it didn’t really have much of an effect at all, like with my grandfather and grandmother.
I believe this story can definitely connect to what we are currently studying in Civics class. Civil rights were a big part of the desegregation changes, and interviewing a person who has had a few actual experiences concerning them improved my knowledge on the subject.

Interviewee: Jean Sigler

The room that the interview took place in was the living room of my grandmother’s house. Her name is Jean Sigler; she was dressed in one of her jump suits. She had her glasses on and some of her jewelry. She is a very old woman that loves all of her children and grandchildren. The one quote that I will always remember that she said was “it’s hard for people to change.”

She grew up in Little Rock, Arkansas. She went to Central and graduated there in 1954. She never went to college, instead she married and man named Jim Sigler. He went to college; he started a trucking company. She became a secretary there, that was all that she ever did as a career her whole life. After the company went bankrupt she was old enough where she didn’t need to work any more. She has lived in Little Rcok all of her life, she has also only lived in one house her whole adult life.

The purpose of this interview was to know what happened during the time that the civil rights act took place and what my relatives did. The main topic that she talked about in the interview was that my grandfather wanted to be part of the segregationist that went and protested down at Central but ser never got the courage to actually go down there. We also talked about how she never cared that what was happening, she had a black maid and treated her like she was a white made.

She did, however, get scared of African-Americans later on when her daughter, my mother, went to Hall High School. This occurred in the late 1970’s. I believe that since black citizens have become more adapt and from what she heard from the radio and saw on the television that some black people are a danger to others when put in a certain situation. She thought that from all of the media that was thrown at the world, manly an attack to black Americans. She never had any words that she used to talk about the situation and the stories that she told me. When she told me this story her body language was more tof a stern women then a loving grandmother that I have always seen.

This experience never changed anything of my grandmother’s life. Nothing happened while my mother was at Hall High School, so she never changed her life away from black people. In my opinion she should have been more open to all black citizens. I believe that she still feels that same way towards certain black people and also some certain white people and Mexican people.

The story and worry that she told me is really related to the people of America. Since some of America is still segregationist but not out in public, it seems close to that my grandmother was scared for her daughter to attend Hall High School because of the media telling people about how bad African-Americans are. Since the media gives these strikes against races its hard for many different races to be trusted by others. So those certain races won’t have the liberty that some other races have.

This story and interview didn’t really change my mind about the struggle for civil rights. I say this because I figured that some white people didn’t really care what was going on. Also that some white people like black people just as much as other white people. I have heard stories about how some white people were nice to black people during the time. I have also seen parts in movies, in the Ernest Green Story. It showed that some white people were nice to the Little Rock Nine as they attended Central.

I would tell someone that was doing an interview or a Memory Project a few things. I would tell them to do more then one interview so you can see more then ones mind on what happened during that time. I would also tell them to try to go deep down into that persons mind to find out what exactly happened. That is what I would tell a future person if they were about to endure this project

Interviewee: Joe Smith

I interviewed Joe Smith, who is my step-grandfather on my father’s side. The interview took place on the phone. He was never a wealthy man. He grew up on a farm, in a part of the country, which at the time, was filled with poor colored folk. He moved away from the farm, and did repair work on air conditioners for a living before retiring. Even though he lived where he did, he had very little contact with colored people. This just shows you how badly segregated it was.

One thing Joe remembers best from his past was how little he ever saw a colored person. They had separate schools, neighborhoods, entrances, restrooms, eating areas, and a lot of other segregated places. Because of this he never really had a chance to see any confrontation between the races. These are his few but shocking memories.

While he was a child, his parents and he would go into the town of Dewitt to pick up groceries every Saturday. At a stop light, he saw a nigger man being beaten with a one-inch thick stick by a white man at a construction site. The colored man had done something wrong, so the white man was beating him. The white man would yell at the colored man, hit him with the stick repeatedly until it broke, yell and swear some more, then break the stick on the colored man’s back again. This happened multiple times. Even being a little kid, Joe understood that the white man wasn’t following the law, but still no one was stopping him. He saw how terrible and cruel the white man was being. He was humiliating the black man and beating him like you might a stubborn plow-horse. The colored man just stood there, receiving the beating, and didn’t fight back at all. Joe saw true courage and strength that day.

At the time of the war, Joe’s family still didn’t have electricity in their home, so they used batteries to run the radio. The problem was that the radio batteries were rationed. So they would go down to this black man’s house, and have him splice together lamp batteries, that weren’t rationed, to be used in the radio. While his father took care of business, Joe would play with the little black boy there. They would take old tires up the hill, and roll them back down. This was one of the very few times that Joe ever played with a colored child.

When cotton chopping season came to the farm, Joe was sent out to pick up the colored folk who would help with the harvest. They didn’t own cars, so Joe had to pick them up in the family car. Even though they worked hard jobs, Joes’s family and neighbors still paid a decent wage to the colored workers, and the were never mistreated. They earned the same pay as any white worker who worked beside them; Joe was one of the workers as well. The colored folk back then worked much the same jobs that a lot of Hispanics work today.

During Joe’s six months of basic training before starting with National Guard, he saw a place where racial discrimination wasn’t apparent towards blacks. It was 1961 and this was the first sight of what it was like to see blacks being treated fairly, and not being segregated. He even had a number of sergeants who were black. Many black men joined the army at the time rather than stay civilians because this was one of the few places where their race wasn’t held against them. Even here, however, racial discrimination occurred. But this time it was towards Puerto Ricans.

I learned that the whites separated themselves from the black people mostly so they would see, deal, or confront them as little as possible, also so they could have cheap labor. The working towards the African Americans obtaining civil rights was a process where the blacks were even more put upon, but it was for the cause of gaining the basic rights that any person should have. I learned that the Civil Rights Movement was something that the African Americans in our country had to face if they ever wanted true freedom.

Interviewee: Jane Doe

It was about 7:30 at night on 2207 Singleton Cove. It was a nice night. This interview took place at my house. We were in my mom’s room and on her bed.
She started off by saying my grandma was a good woman. My mom said my grandma wasn’t racist; she saw everybody as one color. My grandma worked at the North Little Rock Parks and Recreation. She used to keep all the people’s kids. The whites, Asians, and blacks all trusted her with their kids.
My mom played softball with an all black team. On the all black team, they were too advanced, so my mom went to an all white team.  They treated her well because my grandma was well respected by the whites.  My mom was the star. My mom went back to the all black team and was very good.
My grandma did not really have a problem with racism. You could probably say she was lucky. My grandma was a well known lady around the neighborhood. Whites treated her equally, so she treated them equally. My mom was also treated equally because of the respect they had for her mother. My grandma was a good church-going lady, but she would cuss in a minute. My grandma kept everybody’s kids including her six. In her house, there were thirteen people living there. She took people off the streets and let them stay in her home. My grandma is 99 years old. I guess the bible is right: if you do well and live by the bible you are promised 77 years plus.

Interviewee: Patrick Keogh

Patrick J. Keogh, my dad, sat in the comfort of home as he retold his high school experience in a rural southern town. Patrick Keogh grew up in Marianna, Arkansas, near West Helena. In the early 1970’s, Lee Senior High School integrated. Most of the Caucasian families did not support the integration, so they built a private school, Lee Academy. Lee Academy was priced so that not many African-Americans could afford to attend. Patrick Keogh was one of 150 Caucasian students out of a 1200-student high school.
When my dad was in 10th grade at Lee Senior High School, there was a walkout. African-American School Officials wanting more jobs open to the black race caused the three to four month walkout. Many students of Lee Senior high were prompted and prodded to help with the walkout and many did. “Ninety percent of the school walked-out,” said Patrick with a scorn.
“I remember that I was in Algebra and all of a sudden a bunch of black guys were running through the portable buildings. We were all scared because they had turned the fire hoses on them, knocking people down. They were even throwing trash cans at them.” Patrick Keogh said sadly as he told about the first day of the walkout. From then on there was only 10% of the school left, and nothing to do all day.

“All I did was play chess and basketball, but my Algebra teacher did give homework every night.” Patrick Keogh said bitterly. My dad was extremely bitter towards the walkout; he didn’t understand why he still had to go to school when everyone else didn’t. Eventually most of the students and teachers came back. The African-American School officials did not get what they wanted but some students like Rodney Slater (Clinton’s head of transportation) never came back to Lee Senior High.

Some people say that high school is the best time of their lives, but for Patrick Keogh, it was a nightmare. He said that he has tried to put Marianna, Arkansas behind him; the minute he could, he wanted to get out of the town and never come back. He has returned to Marianna, Arkansas, in recent years but was instantly bitter and saddened when he saw Lee Senior High School again. Even through all the things that happened to my dad he is still the most kind and wise person I have ever met. I respect him to the fullest and even though I don’t know exactly what he went through I could see and feel the tension of bringing up that place that he had long ago stopped calling home.
My dad said, “I was afraid that this had ruined my high school education.”

Interviewee: Grady Moore

I interviewed my grandfather. His name is Grady Moore. My grandfather is retired now, but he is a troop leader during his story. He was actually a leader of his cabin in the Korean War. My grandfather is 73 years old, but when he was in the army he was 23 years old. My grandpa believes that everyone should be treated equal no matter the race. This is how my grandpa’s story related to me.

My grandpa was a man that faced civil rights everyday. One day my grandpa and some other soldiers were watching a movie at a movie theater.  Well, the white soldiers didn’t want the black soldiers in the same theater as them. They threw popcorn and pops on them while they called them outside of their names.  My grandpa doesn’t like being called out of is name so he acted on instinct and hit one of the white soldiers. A fight broke out because of that and of course he got punished for it. My grandpa was eating lunch when his friend Porsha came over to him. “Drew kicked all of your stuff in the floor and in the hallways”, he quickly said to grandpa. My grandpa stayed calm and continued to eat his lunch. He told Porsha that he would handle it. My grandpa was to be the leader of his cabin, but a white boy named Drew didn’t want to take orders from my grandpa. So he took matters in his own hands and threw my grandpa’s stuff all over the place. My grandpa was trying to be calm about the situation and ask Drew to pick up his stuff. Drew wasn’t having it. Some Mexicans from another cabin came and told Drew to pick up the stuff or they would kill him. Drew didn’t believe them so the Mexicans pulled out knives and blades. Drew, of course, picked up my grandpa’s stuff, but he told on my grandpa. My grandpa was punished even longer for that, but he still got to be a leader.  He also stood up for himself and he said he wouldn’t change anything he did.

After hearing this story, it made me appreciate my grandpa more. I never knew he went through those sorts of things. This interview has made me learn things about my grandpa that I never knew before. My grandpa doesn’t let anything stay in his way and that’s why I admire him for that.

Interviewee: Shelby Sullivan

At the time of the interview Cathy Dupont was 61. she is a retired banker who is now working at the villa Italian restaurant as a manger. At the time of story being told she was 16, and in 10th grade Hall High school. Cathy Dupont is my grandmother on my father’s side of the family. because of the publicty at Central High, Hall’s Integration was a Publicized. Also because of problems at Central extra precautions were taken.

In 1960 Hall High school started it’s inegration. To avoid too much conflict between races black boys did not attended the first and second year of integration. It started off very slowly; one black girl to each grade, 10th, 11th, and 12th. The first day of school many of the ever attended school with black people before and no one really year. Some People refused to attend class with black people in her future. She also thought of the black students were brave because they faced adversity and possible violence.

After interviewing my grandmother I adnmired and respecter her more than I have in the past. I think the reason of this new found admiration is because in a time where being racist or bias was so accepted she refused to behave in that manner. I also believe that my respect for her grown because of her telling me she thought the girls were brave. To believe that someone is brave you must know that they are taking risk. She saw and understood why they were risking going to an all-white school and I respect her because she respected them as human beings.

Interviewee: Margaret Presley

This interview was at Ms. Presley’s house in her living room. The living room was a fairly casual space; there were two armchairs and a sofa in the room. She was wearing a red robe and looked comfortable and happy to see my partner, Jessica Lin, and me. She didn’t go into any stories from the questions we asked her. During the interview she was quiet, almost as if she was intimidated by being interviewed and recorded. One thing that particularly stuck in my mind after the interview was her talking about how her parents had brought her up to believe in integration. Her parents had a huge influence on the decisions she made in her lifetime, and it showed in the decisions she made.

During the interview, Ms. Presley was talking no only about herself, but also about her family and friends. She grew up in Pine Bluff, Arkansas. She was a senior in the local high school when Central high was integrated. Most of the questions asked were about how she was brought up and what she thought of integration. Thankfully, she felt sorry for people of other races and treated them kindly. Although sometimes she had a little trouble remembering what happened, she was able to give Jessica and me a pretty good idea of her experiences involving intergration.

One thing she said in the interview was her parents taught her about people being different but equal. People may look different on the outside, but on the inside, we are all equal. That’s how she treated everyone in her life, equally. She also said that because she didn’t live in Little Rock, she wasn’t exposed to the harsh realities of integration that many people were exposed to. She almost secluded, but she did have some friends who lived in Little Rock at the time. those friends and the newspaper kept her up to date with the rest of the world.

During the interview, as I said before, Ms. Presley was somewhat stiff and only answered the questions we asked her. Her eyes were downcast and she looked at the floor during the interview. She also seemed a little sad while she talked about her childhood. Every so pften, she would smile and relax a little. Even though she was sheltered from most of the pain of integration by living in Pine Bluff, she could remember how she felt and what happened clearly.

She told Jessica and me about her teenage years during integration because it was a painful time for her and those around her.  These stories need to be passed on, so we don’t have to experience the pain and go through what the world went trough because we misunderstand the past.  She also wanted to show us how much our parents influence the decisions we make now and will make later on in our lives.  If our parents teach us well, our decisions will be good and help us advance in life.  We must believe what we’ve been taught, but we must also form our own opinions from what we believe. That is why Ms. Presley told us about her past experiences, so we can learn from our mistakes and advance in life.

Ms. Presley was lucky enough to have parents that taught her integration was a good thing, and that she should believe in it. She treated people of other races kindly during a time when inegration was everywhere. Even when basic civil rights didn’t include other raced she treated everyone kindly and with respect. Because of this, i think that she can be considered a hero for following her beliefs and doing the right then when others didn’t.

Interviewee: Gene Dodson

The time was on a Sunday Afternoon after church, and Gene Dodson was heading back to church for Easter Dinner. We were sitting in the dining room, and across from me sat Gene Dodson with her African Church Clothes, hat, and shoes. While having conversation, she was very comfortable because I have interviewed her before, but it seemed as if talking about this topic bothered her.

This interview happened in Little Rock, Arkansas, at the home of Gene Dodson. Her dining room is full of art and family pictures because she is very deep into her African-American culture. While I was doing this interview, my Uncle was also present. First we talked about some specific questions, and as we were talking about this, she started to get a little emotional, and then soon we wrapped up our conversation.

One thing that stuck in my mind was her saying that “Black people wanted to hurt whites but they couldn’t because they were intimidated and blacks had to accept it.” The racism mainly took a toll on her when she was in High School.
One day she was at school, and in the Girls and Boys restroom a White young man had written graffiti with racial slurs on the walls of black schools and never got caught. Examples would be “monkey”, the N word, “shine”, “smut-bucket”, “color”, and “mandengo”.

And it was a sad situation because I saw how her eyes started to get teary and her gestures became bigger. She also had different levels of her voice. Maybe for instinct, she had a happy voice, sad voice, worried voice, and disappointed voice.

This story relates to Civil Rights because it is a constant struggle to be treated as a human being, and it is becoming harder and harder each day. When I asked Gene Dodson how this experience relates to Civil Rights, she said, “It was innocent human beings fighting for their Civil Rights.” I totally agree with the statement because every citizen of the United States deserves every civil right they have, unless they break them constantly. I think that any story having to do with discrimination has to do with Civil Rights.

My interview was very successful with Gene Dodson, and she was very informative and helpful when it came to this project.

Interviewee: Valva Jo Hawkins

In the 1950’s and 1960’s, race was an issue most didn’t like to talk about. Whites stayed with whites, and blacks stayed with blacks. That was until 1957 when nine black students entered the doors of Little Rock Central High, an all white school. This shattered all belief that whites and blacks would always be separated. The whites didn’t deal well with this change. They protested with hurtful words and even more hurtful actions. Blood, sweat, and tears were shed that first year at Little Rock Central High, and it impacted society so much that all the schools in the Little Rock School District were shut down that next year, allowing no one to enter their doors. This year, I asked my grandmother to reach back into her memory and tell me what it was like to be a student during that hard time. I learned some valuable information that helped me better understand the impact that the integration had on everyone.
I sat at my kitchen table as I waited patiently for my grandmother to arrive. It was about eight in the morning and I had just eaten a pop tart for breakfast and was drinking some orange juice. Suddenly there was a ring at the door, and my mom answered it. It was my grandmother, Valva Jo Hawkins, carrying a tub of paper work for my dad’s business and wearing large, green sunglasses. She came into the kitchen, sat down in the chair in the corner, took of her glasses, and said she was ready. I started asking her the questions I had on my interview sheet, such as “How old were you and where were you living when the changes in civil rights started happening?” Shortly into the interview she told me to stop writing and start listening. I did as I was told, and she started telling me about her living conditions and what it was like to live back then.
My grandmother was seventeen-years-old when the schools in the Little Rock School District closed down due to integration problems. She was living in Hot Springs, Arkansas at the time. Since no one wanted Central to be integrated, many families moved from Little Rock to Hot Springs so that they could go to school. The Little Rock Nine “split up” and it was an odd time. Some blacks wanted integration; some didn’t. Some whites wanted integration; some didn’t. There were mixed feelings about everything that was going on and it was a tough subject to talk about. However, my grandmother was in her own little corner of the world. Being a young woman, it was hard for her to deal with. She felt like the integration was being forced onto her, and she probably wasn’t ready for the impact of it. At the time she opposed integration. However, a black family lived down the street from her, and she was polite and nice to them. The family also opposed integration, and they said that they wanted their own school. As you can see, there were many mixed emotions, and integration wasn’t a common topic for discussion.
As the years went by, my grandmother became the mature, beautiful woman she is today. She realized that those years in the past were horrible and she put it behind her. To this day she still reflects on those years and has come to realize that it is unjust and wrong to have segregation. Not only did her last year of high school change her, it changed everyone around her. She still knows people that are bigoted or have become more bigoted, but she also knows people who have more understanding about the integration. She has personally changed because instead of judging people by their race, she judges them as people. I now go to Little Rock Central High School, the school that started all the mixed feelings and controversies in Arkansas. My grandmother doesn’t oppose me going to Little Rock Central now because she knows that it’s ethical to integrate and to accept other races. Over the years, times have changed, and blacks and whites have learned to live together. I was able to see this change through a different perspective. I saw things through my grandmother’s eyes when she told me to sit my pencil down and just listen.